On March 11, 2025, Ryan Dawson interviews 70-year-old Mary Phagan-Kean, great-niece of 13-year-old Mary Phagan, about the 1913 murder case that led to the founding of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) by B’nai B’rith. Phagan was raped and murdered at the National Pencil Company in Atlanta, her body found in the basement on April 27, 1913. Leo Frank, the Jewish superintendent, was convicted based on forensic evidence—blood and hair in the factory—and Jim Conley’s testimony, alleging Frank’s involvement. Phagan-Kean defends the trial’s outcome, documented in the Leo Frank Trial Brief of Evidence, which withstood U.S. Supreme Court appeals. She disputes the ADL’s claim that antisemitism solely drove Frank’s conviction, pointing to witness testimonies of his predatory behavior. The interview explores the ADL’s 1913 founding to defend Frank and its ongoing efforts to exonerate him, which Phagan-Kean views as a distortion of history. She discusses Frank’s 1915 lynching by the Knights of Mary Phagan after his sentence commutation, a key moment for the ADL’s mission. Phagan-Kean cites her book, The Murder of Little Mary Phagan (2025), debunking myths like the “bite mark” evidence. She notes the 1986 pardon, which didn’t clear Frank, and 2025 efforts by the Georgia Innocence Project for exoneration, which she opposes. Dawson and Phagan-Kean discuss X debates, with some citing Alonzo Mann’s 1982 affidavit implicating Conley, while others support the trial’s verdict. The interview critiques the ADL’s influence on historical narratives, urging a reexamination of justice and bias.
